Digest 2015-06-17

<body>Federated Wiki Hangout on June 17, 2015 Attendees: <ul class="bullet"><li>Ward</li><li>Paul</li><li>David Ing</li><li>David Bovill</li><li>Ksenia Serova</li><li>Duke Crawford</li></ul>     Paul has been working on some problems associated with slow client response <ul class="bullet"><li>Developers version of Mozilla may fix that</li></ul>     Have used Chrome inspector, notices busy but doesn't say where to fix <ul class="bullet"><li>Having notification on fork could be useful</li><li>Worry:  creating a lot of interest when not ready for it</li><li>When we are ready, it could become a spam problem</li><li>Pod structure:  automatically listening to each other</li><li>If find something interesting, should become involved in the pod</li></ul>     Private notification to the site owner that you're forking? <ul class="bullet"><li>In a pod, could whitelist or blacklist other sites</li><li>Where would it show up?  Haven't gotten that far, yet?  At the bottom, in the journal?</li></ul>     A popular fork showing up in the journal? <ul class="bullet"><li>Maybe the server would notice and fold it into the journal?</li></ul>     How about any entry:  first time you're forked, it shows up; then could have "you've been forked how many times" <ul class="bullet"><li>Then doesn't get overloaded</li></ul> Don't notify on fork, notify on first edit <ul class="bullet"><li>Then could just have mentioning if linked to another page</li></ul> Would like to have drag from one page to another wiki, to cause a notice? Farm instead of just a single wiki Livecode, tiddlywiki History in wiki <ul class="bullet"><li>It doesn't actually save all the history</li><li>It saves the path</li><li>Could cut off the recent stuff by forking</li><li>Some people clobber Welcome page</li><li>Can explain how you got there</li></ul> Since December, have export of whole <ul class="bullet"><li>Had an export, and no import, just worked on this</li><li>If you a wiki in good shape last year, can dump</li></ul> Try hard to have lots of sites, and thus might have sites not needed Screen sharing: <ul class="bullet"><li>Fork to shorten history</li><li>Import can show file that was dropped in, can look in and compare alphabeticized list, to ask which one I want</li><li>Can see the size, e.g. 11 MB, but only send one page at a time</li><li>Dealing with 111 MB could be a different problem, by 300 pages is 11 MB</li><li>Can move things site to site without server permissions</li><li>Not dependent on anyone's farms</li></ul> Ward met Dave Winer (and previously): <ul class="bullet"><li>Allan Wirks-Brock hosted</li><li>Agreed on a lot</li><li>Spent an hour something that would hold and display his format; and Dave would do that for Ward</li><li>Comparing JSON</li><li>That's not what really want to do</li><li>Want to move around whole pages</li><li>In the CAD days, had different tools, and wanted round-tripping</li><li>What would it mean to round-trip post content -- a well-developed outline or story, and move it back it forth between the approaches</li><li>Both working in Javascript, both using JSON, both have designed structures -- his deep and Ward's flat</li><li>Have resisted having deep hierarchies, use hypertext</li><li>For him, editing an outlne is arbitrarily deep</li></ul> Wrote a Ruby program that would create a map in a batch <ul class="bullet"><li>Mehaffy wanted a city is not a tree</li><li>Graphviz takes care of node layouts</li></ul> Have an edit history graph <ul class="bullet"><li>If into 5 edit streams, could be messy</li></ul> Would like to be able to draw more things <ul class="bullet"><li>Have been a little slow to implement, as haven't had communities to visualize</li></ul> Demo by Paul: <ul class="bullet"><li>Conversations page from the first Happenings</li><li>Narrative takes the page histories and gives a view</li></ul> During happening, discovered that there were some people who know what they were going, but didn't have people paying attention to have people forking the right version <ul class="bullet"><li>Mike struggled to find out what was going on</li><li>As the world gets bigger, and there's more people forking, we'll see this situation happening all of the time</li><li>Paul started this is chronologically accurate, but people work in spurts so now it's by edit events (e.g. 1000 dots if 1000 edits), dots don't line up vertically</li></ul> Link for the Ruby program for Mike Mehaffy <ul class="bullet"><li>Draws a Graphviz</li><li>If you have pages that have calculations, using the method plugin, and they depend on variables in other pages, this will chart the variable name usage from page to page</li><li>Arc on a graph is a read or write to a page</li><li>Approach could be hyperlinks instead of variable references</li><li>Paul just showed edit history</li><li>There's opportunity for creative visualization</li><li>Before summer is out, we'll be showings to each other</li></ul> Duke:  tiered depiction <ul class="bullet"><li>Has been working on text, for visual alignments</li><li>Originally working on translations</li><li>Useful for versioning on federate wiki?</li></ul> If have a series of pages open, and shift-hover over diagrams will show where it's linked <ul class="bullet"><li>If know if it's the same paragraph, but don't know whether it holds the same content, could do a comparison</li></ul> Twext:  not to have to reread both paragraphs, and know where minor fixes are <ul class="bullet"><li>Microsoft Word has strikethroughs</li><li>Integrate or remove it</li><li>Remove eye fixes</li><li>F7 to German puts verb at end</li><li>Chunk alignment to handle that</li></ul> Jon Udell was working in January, interested in idea that you could watch people write and see the development of a sentence <ul class="bullet"><li>Could get multiple versions in history</li><li>Make a version of the hover, to float over the page, let it go when the shift key is up</li><li>Like a slice of Paul's paragraph</li><li>Jon did more like diff -- red, crossouts; and it wouldn't recognize a move - see <a href="http://jon.sf.fedwikihappening.net/view/visualizing-differences">http://jon.sf.fedwikihappening.net/view/visualizing-differences</a></li></ul> Duke is working with a programmer in Alexandria Could ask her, if code is modular Ksenia asked question about radar chart To have a plugin show in the factory menu ... <ul class="bullet"><li>It works better for text plug-ins</li></ul> Demo on forage.wiki <ul class="bullet"><li>How to wiki ... Add Plugins ... How to choose a plugin</li><li>About Radar Plugin ... have an example, can drag off the page, and put it somewhere else ... which is tricky</li><li>Drag-and-drop for things that aren't full width is tricky</li><li>Top Carbon Emitters</li><li>On Mac, shift-down to move</li><li>Menu goes through hypertext</li><li>Can have more plugins than on the menu</li><li>The way to get it is to copy it onto a page</li><li>Can hand-edit JSON, make it plug-in documentation, then it persists, so all have lineage</li><li>Like a mutation spreading through a population</li></ul> Link to PLAST Any page that ends with the word Template will create a new template Here's the transcript from the Hangout chat Иван Димитров joined group chat. me 12:59 I've started an Etherpad at <a href="http://pad.s2t.org/p/2015-06-17">http://pad.s2t.org/p/2015-06-17</a> Иван Димитров left group chat. duke crawford joined group chat. me 13:03 <a href="http://pad.s2t.org/p/2015-06-17">http://pad.s2t.org/p/2015-06-17</a> David Bovill joined group chat. me 13:15 I've started an Etherpad at <a href="http://pad.s2t.org/p/2015-06-17">http://pad.s2t.org/p/2015-06-17</a> David Bovill joined group chat. Иван Димитров joined group chat. David Bovill left group chat. John Storey joined group chat. Иван Димитров left group chat. David Bovill left group chat. ksenia serova joined group chat. me 13:31 I've started an Etherpad at <a href="http://pad.s2t.org/p/2015-06-17">http://pad.s2t.org/p/2015-06-17</a> David Bovill joined group chat. ksenia serova joined group chat. David Bovill left group chat. ksenia serova left group chat. Ward Cunningham 13:35 <a href="https://gist.github.com/WardCunningham/8272845">https://gist.github.com/WardCunningham/8272845</a> ksenia serova 13:38 We made a start on that recently <a href="http://ksenya.pattern.academy/view/welcome-visitors/pattern.academy/pattern-academy/helene.pattern.academy/plast">http://ksenya.pattern.academy/view/welcome-visitors/pattern.academy/pattern-academy/helene.pattern.academy/plast</a> duke crawford 13:38 pix8 OLDer version <a href="http://th.ai/drop/drop1.mp4">http://th.ai/drop/drop1.mp4</a> 1m <a href="http://th.ai/drop">http://th.ai/drop</a> sort between tiers 1m ksenia serova 13:38 Its so loud here duke crawford 13:39 question forming: twext alignment: <a href="http://twext.com/newtech.gif">http://twext.com/newtech.gif</a> purpose: less saccades (eyemovements) to get more better info would it help comparison between slight #fedwiki updates? <a href="http://xc.cx/twext/#hfh">http://xc.cx/twext/#hfh</a> f7 include english f7 +other langs // imagine as other english versions weak connection gr8! ksenia serova 13:47 I have a question, just remembered: I have been trying to play with a radar chart - but where do I get a radar plugin? I dont seem to find it in the selections of plugins I have when I add a factory. (a bit off topic) John Storey 13:48 i've never been here before, but you tweeted the link and I was curious, so ... ksenia serova 13:52 So we need to have it on our server? Or we can just drag it from any other wiki, such as the one Ward is showing? thanx I will try again and post in a group if I got someth wrong Thanks Ward Cunningham 13:57 <a href="http://ksenya.pattern.academy/view/welcome-visitors/pattern.academy/pattern-academy/helene.pattern.academy/plast">http://ksenya.pattern.academy/view/welcome-visitors/pattern.academy/pattern-academy/helene.pattern.academy/plast</a> me 13:59 When I working with pattern language, I ended up doing SVG diagrams, and dropping them in. <a href="http://fed.coevolving.com/view/welcome-visitors/view/service-systems-thinking/view/conversations-for-orientation-on-service-systems-thinking/view/generative-pattern-language/view/a-pattern-language-which-generates-multi-service-centers-1968">http://fed.coevolving.com/view/welcome-visitors/view/service-systems-thinking/view/conversations-for-orientation-on-service-systems-thinking/view/generative-pattern-language/view/a-pattern-language-which-generates-multi-service-centers-1968</a> ksenia serova 14:00 wow nice Yoo can do that in Graphviz using ranking It does go in <a href="http://livecode.viral.academy/svg.html">http://livecode.viral.academy/svg.html</a> Works fine Except for the links! No SVG's work fine Drag and drop works Yes But no - href links See the experiments I did above No only lins Yep That would be great Yes Yes me 14:06 I registered for Purplsoc. ksenia serova 14:06 So are a bunch of our friends PLAST = Pattern Language for Social Change Helene is going <a href="http://helene.pattern.academy/welcome-visit">http://helene.pattern.academy/welcome-visit</a> @David do you know Helene? If not you should meet at Purplsoc duke crawford 14:09 thx!!! Ward Cunningham left group chat. ksenia serova left group chat. duke crawford left group chat. Paul Rodwell left group chat. John Storey left group chat. </body>